Will Knight: Maybe we also need a renewed open source movement so we’re not just using agents that belong and funnel data to these giant companies. Use open source code and models, and that sort of thing.
Michael Calore: That’s a very good idea. We should get Signal on that, they should start doing that. They should make their own model.
Lauren Goode: I think that sounds great.
Michael Calore: Okay, let’s take another break, and we’ll come right back. Will and Lauren, thank you for invigorating conversation. We’re going to put AI agents to the side for a minute and get human once again. Let’s talk through some recommendations. Will, as our guest, please recommendation something to our listeners.
Will Knight: Okay, I talked about this earlier, but I want to make this my recommendation. I’m going to hold it up, which is great radio. This book, which is The Evolution of Agency by Michael Tomasello. I found it just fascinating and really revealing about what’s missing with AI when it comes to agency, and the importance of understanding human social interaction, human culture. When it comes to the big picture of intelligence in AGI, which everybody talks about, but they don’t really talk about that so much.
Michael Calore: Nice. Lauren, what’s your recommendation?
Lauren Goode: My recommendation is local news, and in particular Mission Local.
Michael Calore: Yay!
Lauren Goode: Mission Local is a local nonprofit news organization here in San Francisco that covers the Mission neighborhood, but also San Francisco broadly. They do a fantastic job. There’s a lot going on in US cities right now, in particular Los Angeles, and also in San Francisco. There are ICE raids happening around the country and people are taking to the streets to protest them. Mission Local has been doing a great job covering what’s been going on in San Francisco so far. I recommend that you support them and support your local news if you can. Mike, what’s your recommendation?
Michael Calore: I want to recommend an essay in the current issue of Harper’s. It is by the Norwegian Writer Karl Ove Knausgaard who, Lauren, I’m sure you’re sick of me talking about. But it’s a fantastic essay. It’s called The Reenchanted World. It is Karl Ove reckoning with technology. He tells you about the first time he encountered a computer, which was 40 years ago. Then he just has not paid attention to computers at all and it starts to bother him. There’s a great quote near the top. “To keep somewhat informed about the political situation in the world is a duty, something one has no right to turn away from. Shouldn’t something similar apply to technology, given the immensity of it influence?” I love that quote because it really gets to the center of what we’re talking about today. In order to engage with the world, you need to understand how these systems work. He goes to a Greek island to visit the Writer James Bridle, because their book Ways of Being is a really good introduction to intelligence, and artificial intelligence, and natural intelligence. They talk a lot about artificial intelligence and how its developed, and how the various ways of computing intelligence have shown up in our lives. It’s a really wonderful reported piece about the current state of technology in our lives.
Lauren Goode: Great.
Michael Calore: Yeah.
Lauren Goode: It sounds a lot shorter than his books.
Michael Calore: Yeah. You can read it in under an hour.
Lauren Goode: All right, sounds good to me.
Michael Calore: Thanks for listening to Uncanny Valley. If you like what you heard today, make sure to follow our show and rate it on your podcast app of choice. If you’d like to get in touch with us with any questions, comments, or show suggestions, write to us at uncannyvalley@WIRED.com. Today’s show was produced by Adriana Tapia. Amar Lal at Macro Sound mixed this episode. Jake Loomis was our New York studio engineer. Meghan Herbst fact-checked this episode. Jordan Bell is our executive producer. Katie Drummond is WIRED’s global editorial director. Chris Bannon is the head of global audio.
